Frustrated rant

I’m a rank newbie, trying to find my way alone through the learning curve for my Taz 5. Everything I read talks about how important it is to have everything calibrated properly. Figuring out HOW, though, is another matter entirely. The manual isn’t much help. It says I don’t need to calibrate my printer, because that was done at the factory. So why aren’t my prints perfect, and why is everybody saying I need to take the time to calibrate properly?

I’ve read everything online I can find trying to find out about calibration, but half the stuff is unusable to me because everyone assumes you know what stuff is. Backlash, and wobble, and all sorts of things to measure or adjust that I don’t know how to find because I can’t find anything that tells me what or where they are. There are all these words that get thrown around, like hex and Budaschnozzle and hotend and E3 and Marlin and pronterface. There are times when pronterface sounds like it’s probably the answer to all my problems, but where to find the elusive beast? I get that it’s some kind of software, and maybe a subset of something else everyone assumes I know about, but I don’t know where to find it. And there are some great posts telling me in general what to do, like “nail the first layer,” but HOW? I’d LOVE to nail the first layer. Some hints would be helpful! Or the detailed article I found about Z-axis wobble, and how to calculate layer height based on your full step length. I have no idea what full step length is, except that it has something to do with the diameter of some screws. Which screws? My printer is full of screws!

I’ve been using Cura since I got my printer, but while trying to figure out this “nail the first layer” thing I’ve been having issues with the one-layer test prints I’ve found just simply not printing at all. I started wondering if maybe my Cura settings are the problem. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to find information and tweak them properly, and in the process have lost faith in the Lulzbot profiles I downloaded, because they don’t seem to follow most if any of the advice I’ve found for how different settings should relate to each other (first layer thickness = nozzle diameter, 200% first layer width, first layer speed, etc. etc.). Since the manual goes into exquisite detail on Slic3r settings, I decided today that maybe I should back up and start over using Slic3r, even though I saw somewhere on the website that it’s for advanced users, and see if some of my problems might be eliminated that way. Not trusting myself to build a profile from scratch (I’m not an advanced user, after all), I thought I’d better start with the Lulzbot-provided profile and go from there. Guess what? There aren’t any Slic3er ABS profiles on the Lulzbot site for my 0.5 mm nozzle. Yeah, I have a 0.35mm nozzle, but darnit, I can’t even get good prints from the 0.5 mm right now, I don’t need to add any more complexity!

And then there’s bed leveling – sheesh! The Lulzbot Website instructions were apparently written for a model that had the Z adjustment knob and stop-switch positions reversed, based on the photos it shows. If I stick a piece of paper under my nozzle and home it, as instructed, it seems to me like it adjusts the nozzle height based on the fact the paper is there. So to avoid that, I have to home, try to slide the paper under, raise the nozzle so I can get to the knob, adjust the knob, home, and try again, and somehow through that entire process retain the muscle memory of how it felt to slide the paper under the last time. Who knows, I’m probably doing it all wrong – but since the instructions don’t work, it’s the best I can do. I WISH I could do it by having the paper there to begin with, and pulling it out – that seems like a much more accurate way to judge the feel. sigh

Another frustration is the fact that every possible useful search term gets eliminated from forum searches here. I know I’m stupid about 3D printers, but I’m NOT stupid about combining search terms to refine my searches so I don’t return every post in the entire database. So why is the forum set up to just assume we’re all too stupid to build proper search queries? Since I can’t search for specific problems I’m having, like where the heck to find Slic3r ABS profiles for my 0.5 mm nozzle, or what settings someone else has found that would help me get my metal filaments to perform better, the forum is next to useless, because I just don’t have time to spend hours browsing the thousands of posts in hopes of randomly running across one that might happen to tell me what I’m looking for.

Okay, enough ranting. I’m going to go try to print something again.

Oops. I set out to post a question about ABS filament Slic3er profiles for 0.5 mm nozzles, but then got overwhelmed by all the frustration, and now my post doesn’t really fit in the Filament section. sigh

Sorry.

:cry:

(Also, I know what Marlin is now, because Piercet told me, and I’ve kind of figured out some of the other terms. It’s just SO slow and frustrating…)

Talk to me. Let’s see some of your prints. Can you print a “known” such as the 3D Benchy, or maybe a Marvin?
Load it up in Cura (download it from http://www.lulzbot.com/cura). Choose the correct filament that you’re using and ‘standard’ for the print quality. Post a pic of the first layer, then the final print.

More than happy to help you, let’s start here. I’d like for you to love 3D printing as much as I do.

More than happy to help you, let’s start here. I’d like for you to love 3D printing as much as I do.

Okay! I do love it; when things work it’s awesome. I’m just having a long dry spell of nothing working, and am feeling totally helpless as to how to get back to the awesomeness.

I just went back to the stock Cura profiles and started a print of the 20mm test cube using the high quality profile and default ABS temperature settings on the Taz. It’s already past the first layer, but here’s how it looks so far…


I’ll go grab Marvin or Benchy while it’s finishing.

Thank you! <3

What brand filament are you using, and do you have a set of digital calipers? That skirt looks pretty thick. The top should be a bit flat rather than rounded. Can you measure it? If you are using the Cura stock profile for ABS that should measure .425mm (or thereabouts)

It’s Hatchbox ABS. Yeah, the skirt looks weird to me, too. The only calipers I have at the moment are in inches; it measures about 0.03", so ~0.78 mm.

The cube just finished; I’ll get Benchy started and then be back in a few with cube photos and measurements.

I didn’t start Benchy yet; I thought I’d wait and see what comes of the cube eval.

Here are photos of the cube – top, bottom (blurry, darnit), and front, and another of the full skirt.

The cube measures 0.8" X by 0.8" Y by 0.78+" Z. So the height is a little bit under the 20 mm it should be, but X and Y are correct.





Oh, and the calipers aren’t digital, they’re analog. :neutral_face: My digital metric set died, so I stole my husband’s, and it’s what he had.

I’m thinking my Z axis is set too low, yes?

Every pic looks like some over extrusion. With Hatchbox (good stuff0 my experience has been that the filament diameter is 3.00mm rather than 2.85mm. If you’re using quickprint, switch to advanced and change the filament diameter to 3.00mm and also make sure the flow rate is also set to 100%. Because of the small skirt you got 3 lines and if over extruding that could explain the almost double height. One thing you can try is let it print one line of the skirt then kill the power. Let the skirt cool then remove it and measure the height (but do it after changing the diameter setting to 3.0mm)

You’ve no doubt read a lot about measuring the filament diameter, which I do every now and then, but to be honest I’ve also found that the manufacturer’s spec for the diameter is usually a good setting and I use that initially. Since Hatchbox lists their filament diameter as 3.0mm (and it effectively is) you need to update the Cura ABS profile which is set to 2.85mm by default. Thus the over extrusion occurs because you’re actually extruding thicker filament than the slicer thought you were using. You’re laying down too much plastic.

The last pic where the bottom is practically smooth could also indicate the nozzle is low, but let’s change one thing at a time and work with the filament diameter first.

Every pic looks like some over extrusion. With Hatchbox (good stuff0 my experience has been that the filament diameter is 3.00mm rather than 2.85mm. If you’re using quickprint, switch to advanced and change the filament diameter to 3.00mm and also make sure the flow rate is also set to 100%. Because of the small skirt you got 3 lines and if over extruding that could explain the almost double height. One thing you can try is let it print one line of the skirt then kill the power. Let the skirt cool then remove it and measure the height (but do it after changing the diameter setting to 3.0mm)

On my way! Ummm…I can’t decide whether this means it could be a bad thing that I calibrated my Esteps using the Hatchbox filament…?

Okay, set filament diameter to 3.0 mm and killed the power after a single skirt line. It measured 0.25 mm.

May seem odd but it shouldn’t matter. The e-steps is making sure that whatever the setting, when it calls for extruding a specific length of filament that is the result. How much different is it set now from what is on the sticker on the back side of the tool head when it was, ahem, calibrated at the factory :unamused:

So, I’m thinking the thin skirt line confirms my Z is set too low, right? I went ahead and raised it by a quarter turn (I don’t want to do anything too complex before you decide what’s the next step) and started a cube print using the Cura standard settings except with the filament width set to 3.00 (yep, that’s what the Hatchbox measures). Here’s a poor quality (sigh) photo of the first layer, FWIW.

How much different is it set now from what is on the sticker on the back side of the tool head when it was, ahem, calibrated at the factory

Factory setting was 824; currently it’s at 811.

Oh, I should also probably note that in keeping with my “start over at ground zero” decision I’m also using the built-in defaults for printing temps; nozzle 240º and bed 110º. I usually print a bit cooler on both.

The “crushed” first few layers is another sign that your nozzle may be too close to the bed. Give the endstop knob a quarter turn. Print half 2mm of the calibration cube then cancel and observe the bottom. It should look similar to your current.

If the esteps doesn’t help, try lowering the flow % to 95 in Cura… should reduce the overextrusion.

The extrusion temps will depend on your print environment. I start prints at 245C then reduce the extrusion temp to 241-243C after 2-3mm. The hotter extrusion temp helps adhesion to bed. As for the bed, I start at 110C then drop down to 100C after 3mm. ABS can still be malleable at 110C… so I like to “lock” in the rigidity to reduce warping from cooling of upper layers.

Again, a lot depends on your print environment… for instance AC flow across the plate or ambient temp in the enclosure or print room.

Cura standard settings tweaked for filament diameter of 3 mm
ABS temp settings (240º/110º)
Z axis raised from previous print by 1/4 turn

Skirt thickness ~0.375 mm (note that with analog non-metric calipers I can’t really be terribly accurate with a measurement that small!)

Cube dimensions 20mm x 20mm x 19.75mm (Z)

It’s got less messiness on the side surfaces, but still has little swoopy pagoda corners on it.



The “crushed” first few layers is another sign that your nozzle may be too close to the bed. Give the endstop knob a quarter turn. Print half 2mm of the calibration cube then cancel and observe the bottom. It should look similar to your current.

Heh. Already done, see above. :slight_smile:

If the esteps doesn’t help, try lowering the flow % to 95 in Cura… should reduce the overextrusion.

Was I supposed to do something to the Esteps?

Yep. Looks much better. :slight_smile:

Was I supposed to do something to the Esteps?

Yes… set the esteps with your new value in the LCD… sorry don’t remember exactly where in the menu structure. Or issue the M92 EXXX followed by a M500 to save. M501 to validate the new value was stored in firmware. See Step 7 of the the following guide:
https://ohai.lulzbot.com/project/extruder_calibration/calibration/

Yes… set the esteps with your new value in the LCD… sorry don’t remember exactly where in the menu structure.

Oh, I’d already done that before DougZ started helping me. I think going back to the factory setting would make things worse, wouldn’t it? Or do I have it backwards in my head? (Factory setting was 824; my setting is 811.)