TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

A forum dedicated to the stock LulzBot TAZ 3D Printer
wantmys2000
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:01 am

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by wantmys2000 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:35 am

Typically slicers don't take printer firmware acceleration and jerk settings into consideration. So the more complex the infill / part is the more the slicers estimate is off.

The factory firmware acceleration factors on the Taz 5 are very low and really slow things down.

Scholarch
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:45 pm

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by Scholarch » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:10 pm

My luck has been hit and miss with 1.75mm abs. Ive gotten a few prints to print fine but others only make it a few layers before the filament kinks. Ive raised my temp to 255C and that helped initially. I think the problem im having now is the extruder tension. I think I have it way too tight but dont know how to tell when its correct.

amcdawes
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Location: Forest Grove, Oregon
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Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by amcdawes » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:57 pm

Inspired by this thread, I tried some 1.75mm ABS (magenta for what it's worth). I could print for a few minutes but then it would coil between the hobbed bolt and the nozzle. This happened at 220C and 240C so I'm not sure if temp will help. I do have a lot of 1.75mm PLA that I will try next. This matches some other reports I've seen that ABS is hit/miss but PLA may work well. Others seeing the same?

hhony
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:47 am

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by hhony » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:09 pm

DerekPGH wrote:I've managed to print about 15 little storage capsules using some pretty shoddy 1.75mm filament. It's very brittle, and that caused some problems for me during my tests. Prints would go smooth until the filament would crackand result in some clogging. I had one major clog and decided to hold off on trying anymore.

I'm pretty confident that some of the better quality filament will work with little problems :)
You're printing too fast (and possibly you need to change the filament size from 2.85mm to 1.75mm). I had the same issue, but if you lower the speed to about 10mm/s you'll get much better bonding. Check the advanced settings in Cura - there are 2 places: print speed and bottom layer speed. Print will take a lot longer, but it will definitely not be as brittle.
Last edited by hhony on Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hhony
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:47 am

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by hhony » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:24 pm

defuzz wrote:I just finished a 12 hour print on my Mini with Red Hatchbox 1.75mm PLA at standard temps. Loosening the idler screws did the trick for me.

I initially thought it should be tightened... but that caused a ton of kinking. I found another thread where they've posted a STL with a jig for properly tensioning (it definitely seems to be for 3mm though... much tighter than what I had it set to for my successful print).

I still do get some accumulation on the hobbed bolt, but it never stopped extruding or got thin.
This is my current issue actually! I'm also using Hatchbox 1.75mm on Taz4 stock config. I also was tightening the screws thinking this would be better?! I tried a few times with the screws less loose, but still fairly tight - and no luck.

For the accumulation: Is it possible that your extruder is too close to the bed?

My issue is with the algorithm that the Taz employs where it backs out the filament so as to stop the flow to the bed. As it's backing out the filament (and then driving it down again) it sometimes will snag on the cooling chamber entry (which is above the heatsink, and is in turn way above the extruder nozzle). The bind happens because the filament is already sort of loosened up and the filament actually doubles over on itself and binds completely in the large opening. It's really aggravating, I have had to clear it like 5-10 times already.

Things that I have had to do to make this configuration work are: change the filament size parameter,and slow the print speed way down (like 10-15mm/s). But on this particular model there are several places where the support material has to be 'dabbed' onto the print bed and this always causes the issue as it is backing the filament in and out of the chamber.

I also have turned the temp down to 180C. I started with it at 190-195C, but I felt the filament when I had to clear the chamber a few times and it was softer overall (higher up) at the higher temperatures. I can successfully print really really small pieces (like say 1hr print with slow speed - maybe 10cm part).

I also halved the retraction speed, and I did the same for the distance after experimentation. At this point I wish there was an easy way to run the base layer in reverse. I know this action wouldn't help, by the way.

I'll keep hacking at it, as I have about 8 rolls of 1.75mm Hatchbox to go through still...

I think it might be the distance to the printbed causing some extra pressure up the tube? Next, I'm going to try backing it off some more and maybe increase the temp again. I need 'good enough' tack perhaps for this piece?

UPDATE:
The answer is 'no' to the above questions. I talked to some 3D printing experts in the industry. The concensus I arrived at was that you'll likely never print any large parts with this configuration. This is partially due to the way the industry is divided into 2 types of printers: 3mm and 1.75mm... and partially because Lulzbot just wasn't designed or optimized around this filament size. This same expert group has lots of 1.75mm printers, and so... I made a deal to trade my 1.75mm for an equivalent amount of 3mm PLA from them... which means my life will be a lot easier.

paulmorley
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by paulmorley » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:42 pm

I've been reading this thread intently since a week ago when i accidentally ordered a spool of 1.75 red from Amazon. (Gizmo Dorks) for those interested. I have a new (to me) TAZ4 that I got refurbished from ITWorks in Loveland. Ive had it just less than 3 months and love it however i'm a tinkerer and have spent a LOT of time trying out every aspect of the printer, used numerous slicers and have tried the 3 major varieties of filament (PLA, ABS and HIPS). Right or wrong, one of the models that i've beat my head against the wall on is the Maker Faire PIP Robot http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:539127/#files. I have tried just about every setting i can think of and have basically failed over and over.

I started with a couple of rolls of HIPS and liked it but was having various success rates. I then got a couple of spools of PLA and thought I liked it even better (at first) but then found I was still having a variety of successes and failures with my prints. Then came the ABS and at this point i think generally like it the best as it seems to just provide a bit more of a consistent experience.

Just to note, at this point i have ~4 rolls of HIPS, 3 of PLA and 4 ABS and except for the HIPS, a wide variety of brands (mostly inexpensive).

But now to the main point. It wasn't worth it to try and return the 1.75 mistake so i opened it up and tried it based on all that i've read on this thread. I did have to tighten the filament tensioner but that was it. And wouldn't you know, i've had significantly better success with that one roll of red ABS than all of my others combined. In addition, i've finally successfully printed the Maker Faire robot as well. So now, quite frankly, i'm baffled. How is it that the best prints i can get out of my printer is with a filament size that my printer isn't even designed to print with?

I'm trying to resist the urge to run out and buy more but i'm certainly going to try another spool and see if i can repeat the success. Any advice would be appreciated. This one is a real head scratcher.

I'll also mention that i have both a .35 and .5 nozzle and have achieved equivalent success with this red 1.75 on both nozzles.

DerekPGH
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:18 pm

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by DerekPGH » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:58 pm

hhony wrote:
DerekPGH wrote:I've managed to print about 15 little storage capsules using some pretty shoddy 1.75mm filament. It's very brittle, and that caused some problems for me during my tests. Prints would go smooth until the filament would crackand result in some clogging. I had one major clog and decided to hold off on trying anymore.

I'm pretty confident that some of the better quality filament will work with little problems :)
You're printing too fast (and possibly you need to change the filament size from 2.85mm to 1.75mm). I had the same issue, but if you lower the speed to about 10mm/s you'll get much better bonding. Check the advanced settings in Cura - there are 2 places: print speed and bottom layer speed. Print will take a lot longer, but it will definitely not be as brittle.

I had the settings right, I'm using Simplify3d to slice. I believe my problem was the size of the spool. It would be jerked around and the filament would eventually snap mid-print. The solution to this is a spacer on the OUTSIDE of the filament spool, forcing the spool to line up like a lulzbot brand reel would. :) Cheers!

Mordiev
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:02 pm

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by Mordiev » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:44 pm

If I may suggest the true nature of the problem is the Direct Drive mount. This plastic piece has a hollow tube that is wide enough for a 3mm filament to pass through. So even if you replace your hot end with a 1.75mm one you still have a tube that is wide enough to allow the filament to bend and kink. Please look at the pictures I uploaded. The first image shows the piece I am referring to. The second image demonstrates the problem.

So what we need to do is modify this piece and print a replacement.
Attachments
Show the Problem.jpg
Identify the Piece.jpg

checktest
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:39 pm

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by checktest » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:49 pm

Potentially looking at getting the TAZ 5, but don't want to mess w/ 3 mm filament, and came across this thread. Was kinda surprised this issue hasn't come up earlier and already been solved. Is it because of the change from budaschnozzle to hexagon hotend? Is there not something like this (https://www.lulzbot.com/products/budasc ... m-filament) for the hexagon, but a metal sleeve instead to retain the all metal / high temp feature. I assume these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epcxTORf1z8) and (https://learn.adafruit.com/downloads/pd ... pgrade.pdf) won't work due the same issue, new hotend?

Seems obvious that something mechanical would need to change if you are using a smaller filament. The filament would need to be closely supported on all sides from the point at which the extruder gears apply force, all the way through to the nozzle, or else it is going to have room to buckle. So is it just the direct drive mount, as the previous poster suggested, or other parts as well?

kcchen_00
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:42 am

Re: TAZ 5 and 1.75mm Filament

Post by kcchen_00 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:07 pm

Its really just the hotend... they make a 1.75 version of the Hexagon AO which should be a drop in replacement on the TAZ5. I don't think the extruder body or hobbed bolt would need to be changed... the idler should provide enough compression.

Some ideas for retrofitting the existing hexagon, 3mm OD aluminum tube, and 1.75mm filament nozzle for the hexagon:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WT ... LXBJWV&P=8
http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/hot- ... parts.html

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