Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

A forum dedicated to the stock LulzBot TAZ 3D Printer
kcchen_00
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:42 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by kcchen_00 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:13 am

This was put on hold for a bit due to personal issue my friend had to deal with. Tried reaching him when I saw your post, but he hasn't replied. He's got the extruders and hotends... I guess I could look into getting some extruders to finish mockng it up.

Just uploaded a preview of the project in the current state: DualTitan

Things to do:
- Determine best way to attach the fans to the extruder. Need to come up with a "dovetail" type interface...
- Holes to mount dual extruder tray and fan to toolhead mount. Probably just some openings to hold a M4 nut on the tray with corresponding openings on the mount.
- Need to figure out if a 20x20 or 40x40 fan will fit on the back side for heatsink cooling.
- Wire management

Pretty simple things, but I wanted to mock up what I had before moving further.

Alternative / Ambitious things to try:
- Make each stepper / extruder detachable for quick change of hotends (which can be dedicated to filament type). Really to keep from intermixing filaments and therefore reducing potential clogging. In the current configuration getting the cover off to replace the hotend would involve removing the blower and duct... worse if I try for the below item.
- Turn the extruders around to keep hotends close to the X-rods/openbeam. Based on experiences with the DualExtruder V2, this should increase stability of both hotends.

infiniteloop
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:56 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by infiniteloop » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:16 am

kcchen,

Thank you VERY MUCH for getting back to me on this. I just finished my open rails x axis mod and am now prepping to get this toolhead assembled but I don't know my way around 3D modeling >.<

Here is a single version of the titan + E3D mount:
SingleTitanExtruderForTaz5.stl.zip
(20.71 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
Having thought a fair bit about it, but with minimal experience as a modeler, I thought of a few things...

The motors should be as close to the carriage as possible (and as close together as possible) because they are the heaviest things on the toolhead. That should reduce vibration / artifacts the most. [Anyone jump in here with more experience on this issue!]

Secondarily, the toolheads should be as close together as possible but this is pretty much dependent on where the motors sit.

Third, The fans should not be in the front as you have modeled in your own design [in my noob opinion]. Like the single version I posted here, the fans should come from either side so as to keep everything as close to the rail as possible.

Also, It would be optimal if we can see inside the extruders through their clear siding but if they have to be facing each other or something so be it...

Let me know how many six packs of beer I can help sponsor your efforts with!!! I am dreading the idea of learning 3D modeling to make such a technical item. Let me know what you think :)

kcchen_00
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:42 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by kcchen_00 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:43 pm

Great suggestions... and doable modifications.

The extruders are seperated by 5mm. It looks farther, but the gear extends farther than the outer wall. The hotend distance is limited by the extruder body. To get the hotends closer together, the extruders could be setup facing each other. It would help with keeping the nozzles level.

One of the keys I was worried about with the side-by-side configuration was clearances on the X axis. Moving the fans to either side could be a possibility... but you'd have to find a left hand and right hand blower based on the intake? I'd like to take advantage of the rear of the X-carriage...

As for the motors. Its definitely a good idea to keep the mass as close to the rails. But working with the existing Dual Extruder V2, the stability of the T1 hotend is compromised due to the it being further away from the rail... basically it loses accuracy unless you mitigate all the jerk. Which means printing a 20mm/s. This could be that the X-Carriage or current tool mount is not strong enough with the current design... that's another project in the making.


Anyway, this is still very much a work in progress... I can put some finishing touches on all the parts this weekend if you'd like to test print and assembly.

I've got the extruders on order, also a 50x15 fan... should have a better idea of fitment and possibly next week.

infiniteloop
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:56 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by infiniteloop » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:07 am

kcchen,

Glad we agree on the suggestions! I am stoked you have decided to give this project some time as I got a chance to look at a few other things you posted on SketchFab. You clearly know what you're doing.

One thing you are probably right about is the side clearance of the proposed fans on the left and right sides. Especially with bigger fans, it might be wide enough to reduce the printable area (so as not to hit the taz frame on either side). I don't know how well a design with the shrouds on the back of the axis would work... especially considering I have modded the rods to a rail (and a lot of other people have too). Let me know if you want any photos or caliper measurements for a second opinion.

I am also using a Dual Extruder V2 and have been non-plussed. Heat creep issues and the seemingly unnecessary weight of the thing has me annoyed. Really looking forward to an option that is lighter and doesn't protrude as much from the axis.

Also, I noticed the space between the back of the motor and the rear of the carriage mount plate. Any chance you could make that flush? I think the single titan extruder file I posted did a nice job of that.

Let me know when you want me to guinea pig a new model and I will post with comments and photos!! You rock.

-Loop

lasersharkdesign
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:19 pm

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by lasersharkdesign » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:23 am

For those working on TAZ mounts, I designed and posted this on Thingiverse a few months back, its been working great for me. I'm sure it can be improved, but I've had zero issues with it so far:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1523837

Love to see what others come up with. Like I said, I'm sure mine could be improved. Someone else did a remix of it, making it smaller to handle a smaller pancake stepper as well.

Mine has the motor as far back as possible, centering the weight, with the Titan front facing for easy access. This does offset the hot end from the standard position. The simple fix was I just loosened the screws on the taz and re-centered the bed with the nozzle, no firmware or other changes necessary.

PeterT
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by PeterT » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:39 am

lasersharkdesign wrote:
kcchen_00 wrote:... I can go 1.75 or 3mm without hassle, and can print flexible without a $300 upgraded extruder.
I'm curious how the 1.75 / 3mm is working out for you. Also, the flexible filaments. Specifically, are they 100% stable in operation? This would certainly be a #1 selling point for upgrading my rig.

Thanks for any additional info you can share.

PeterT
Taz 5
Misumi hardened rods and bearings
Piercet Anti wobble Z-nut
Raspberry Pi w/ Octoprint and remote power control
Aerostrudder Head

lasersharkdesign
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:19 pm

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by lasersharkdesign » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:54 am

PeterT wrote:
lasersharkdesign wrote:
kcchen_00 wrote:... I can go 1.75 or 3mm without hassle, and can print flexible without a $300 upgraded extruder.
I'm curious how the 1.75 / 3mm is working out for you. Also, the flexible filaments. Specifically, are they 100% stable in operation? This would certainly be a #1 selling point for upgrading my rig.

Thanks for any additional info you can share.

PeterT
You quoted me quoting kkchen - I can only speak for the 1.75 and 3mm filaments. Both work beautifully in it. I prefer 3mm filament because if you're printing with a huge nozzle you're going to be ramming 1.75mm through it really fast which could cause problems with the spool. But they both have no issue at all. In fact even with 3mm, when using a huge nozzle, I was having printing problems because the extruder could not pull the filament through fast enough when pulling against the weight of a full spool, I had to design a new spool holder with both standard and trust bearings. Now my spool turns with only the slightest tug, and it's solved a ton of print problem.

I still haven't tried flexible filament, so I cannot speak for that, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work great. The path from the hobbed bolt to the hot end is so short, and the entire path is 'enclosed' with no wiggle room, I don't forsee any problems.

nopick
Posts: 1029
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by nopick » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:40 am

Has anyone swapped between flexible and standard filaments with a Titan? If so, did you have any trouble? Did you use a cleaning filament between the other filament types?

kcchen_00
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:42 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by kcchen_00 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:47 pm

Updated model: DualTitan.V0.2

Still want to add wire management... but everything fits as planned. Waiting on M4x5 screws to test the extruder fastening.

Mock-up pictures. Sorry for the poor picture quality... bad lighting = grainy pictures.
Attachments
DSC05316.jpg
Assembled
DSC05321.jpg
Extruder removed

infiniteloop
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:56 am

Re: Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

Post by infiniteloop » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:47 pm

Yessss! Kcchen killing it!

I will print this out and give you feedback soonish. I still think that having the fans on the sides would be great because it would keep everything closer to the axis and also let you see through the windows on the titans.

Got a link for those fans you used by chance?

Thanks again for working on this, so grateful.

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