Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

A forum dedicated to the stock LulzBot TAZ 3D Printer
dreamlime
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:04 pm

Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:29 pm

Greetings,
 
Writing to this forum in hope of possible solution.

I purchased my initial TAZ 6 unit on 14th of December from Microcenter. After installing the printer, I produced a roctopus print with NGen Standard Cura Profile which had slight ringing on the surface.
Right after that I started to get familiar with ABS and produced a 3d Benchy printed with standard ABS profile with local ABS fillament supplier. Once first ABS print was done, I noticed more pronounced ringing same as NGen's roctpous print.
The reason that it wasn't as obvious as ABS is because NGen is considerably easier to print due to ability of using cooling. My project requires strictly abs print workflow, because final model will be smoothened in ultrasonic acetone chamber, see the link for details (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivH4Dm3ysw)
At that point I started to troubleshoot the issue.
First I went through numerous forum posts and tried to find a solution that would eliminate/decrease this artifact. This allowed me to get more familiar with structural components of the printer and get a good general knowledge on it.
Next thing was to reach out to Lulzbot tech support team. They kindly gifted their time and started to troubleshoot the issue together with me. We went through calibration procedures indicated on the OHAI support portal, purchased Village plastic ABS to ensure that imperfections are not due to the locally purchased ABS (which in all honesty is a great product). Purchased Printed Solid enclosure case to make sure that ambient temp during printing remains stable.
None of the approaches delivered improvements to this issue. After many tweaks and fixes, support team advised that we tried all the options and the unit has to be replaced.
After printer has arrived to facility and diagnosed, it was determined that toolhead was faulty.
Once I received the second unit, I noticed numerous upgrade on the structural components which gave me a confidence that this unit will produce considerably improved print quality.
Started to print with good high quality ABS fillaments together with village plastic and observed similar ringing across the print surfaces as per initial unit.
Then I made sure everything is lined up and belts are properly tensioned (great belt tension out of the box). Upgraded printing surface to Buildtak(so far the only good experience in terms of upgrades) which allowed me to print ABS with 75 degrees on build plate and still provide great adhesion. Also made first layers to look great.
Still there is ringing/ghosting on the prints... 
Lastly we tried yesterday to adjust e-steps, fully turn off the heated and print Z resonance tower.
The issue is still present and I'm in a very though situation as my initial plan was to provided 3d printed parts to customers and make profit.
Currently and this is 100% my reality. Running low on the budget have no working solution to start earning income from this project.

Attached images are the latest printed 3d scanned artifact consists from 3 sections (later been glued together). The headdress and bottom section has a layer height of 0.1mm which is considerably high, face section is 0.2mm medium quality. All sections been printed on standard unchanged settings.
What I get in these prints, is observed as a resonance pattern coming from some loosen/misaligned or damaged component. Changing basic print setting, simply expands or shrinks the effect.


Another note regarding acetone smoothing, it's a post process solution which after such printed ringing effect recreates wavy smooth surface, see attached.

Lastly, all the structural components been check for any lose play in them, belts are tight out of the box in good condition still.

Please address this matter and help to find peace in this situation. 
 
Thank you,
 
Vugar
Attachments
20170703_174134.jpg
20170703_174059.jpg
20170630_224545.jpg
20170630_224529.jpg
20170630_224517.jpg

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piercet
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by piercet » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:42 pm

Did you already do the firmware update to resolve the interlayer temperature pid autotune vs bang / bang temperature regulation issue that was present in the stock taz 6 release? That looks like what you are dealing with.

Details here
https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/com ... ow_to_fix/

dreamlime
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:04 pm

Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:20 pm

Yes, attached screencap is the details on the latest firmware. As per suggested post; it begins promising, closer to the mid results are the same and it ends with a sad note.. Currently performing following calibration: https://ohai.lulzbot.com/project/squaring-taz-6-frame/
Attachments
M115.JPG

dreamlime
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:59 pm

Followed the guide, everything was initially right on. Can someone post a sample of 3dBenchy printed with abs on a high profile?

dreamlime
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:04 pm

Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:14 am

After few adjustments (will go over in detail on the next post), printed 3dBenchy straight from SD card. With default settings using NGen filament. Can see the ringing across the hull, but it's less pronounced. Will be producing an ABS version tomorrow and follow up with the progress.
Attachments
20170704_014306.jpg
20170704_014246.jpg
20170704_014222.jpg
20170704_014155.jpg
20170704_014121.jpg

dreamlime
Posts: 19
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:10 pm

Adjusted X Carriage even more accurately by using digital caliper. Printed with Default IC3D ABS profile on standard quickpint profile. After 2-3 layers shutoff the heated bed to see if it improves the ringing. Attached are the results, still visible resonance across the hull. Producing second ABS print with revised e-steps in order to compensate over extrusion. Also re-adjusting X carriage as per this guide: http://richrap.blogspot.ca/2017/04/lulz ... blems.html.
Attachments
20170704_132336.jpg
20170704_132324.jpg
20170704_132234.jpg
20170704_132157.jpg
20170704_132144.jpg
Benchy_ABS_ VP_Ic3dProfile_0Heatbed.JPG

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piercet
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by piercet » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:35 pm

One thing you will want to change, you are starting new layers on the outside perimeter. All of those "zits" on the print are new layer start points. You want to adjust your slicing program to "start new layers on inner perimeters only" . I see no evidence of ringing on that print. I do see layer inconsistencies though. Tighten your idler tension bolts another 1-2mm and see if that helps. You are overextruding slightly on the first layer, but thats normal for a new printer setup (promotes better adhesion) if you are satisfied with how well the parts are sticking, you can back the first layer overextrusion setting off a little bit, that will eliminate that issue.

Is the fillament cooling fan (not the always on barrel cooling fan) running while you are printing that? it shouldn't be other than for the stack. and maybe the tower pillars. To see if overheating or overcooling is a factor, try printing two of them at the same time with no fan on and see if quality improves or gets worse.

dreamlime
Posts: 19
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:13 pm

Appreciate your feedback. All the minor artifacts such as "zits" could be fixed with suggestions as you described. Main and unresolved issue is the resonance that you can clearly see on the first 3 pictures of the latest printed benchy. The same effect happens across all the prints and ruins the overall print surface... Currently setting up Simplify 3D with standard Cura settings and additional suggested tweaks.

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piercet
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by piercet » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:32 pm

Ringing would typically show up as artifacts around things like the hawse hole in the front of the hull there, and would show up as repeating less prominent variants of a pattern involving sharp corners. it looks like this https://www.simplify3d.com/wp-content/u ... inging.jpg . It is only found in the X and Y axis for the most part. In the Z axis, it can be "Banding" or "Z wobble" or "inconsistent interlayer extrusion". The latter is probably what you are dealing with. Banding and Z wobble are usually very much tied to the shape of the leadscrew threads, and almost always shows up as an offset that matches the leadscrew thread when the part is held up against it.. Inconsistant extrusion, such as you are displaying on that benchy is tied to the Extrusion and can have several causes, from crap fillament, to improper idler tension via loose idler bolts, or gummed up hobbed bolts. Sometimes also loose small gear setscrews or electrical issues witih the heater core or thermistor. it can also be caused by either too little barrel cooling fan, or too much fillament cooling fan with ABS. Retraction settings can also come into play a tiny amount, and yours are off a bit based off the amount of layer start plastic blob present, but not to the point where its affecting the rest of the layer.

dreamlime
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Re: Taz 6 Ringing/Resonance/Ghosting along the Z-axis

Post by dreamlime » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:00 pm

Yes, thank you for describing. Attaching latest prints made with VP Abs, adjusted e-step, printed in Simplify 3d on default Cura settings with some change, fans off, bed turned off after layer 3. Similar effect was on the different Ultimaker Abs filament. Have checked all the tension and calibration. It happens with NGen filament as well with fans on with default settings.

What is the best/correct way to fix this?
Attachments
20170704_182332[3160].jpg

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