Filament grinding

A forum dedicated to the stock LulzBot TAZ 3D Printer
JRAlvarez
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Filament grinding

Post by JRAlvarez » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:28 pm

To recap. I still haven't solved this issue.

* Without the enclosure prints still fail.

* If I point a rather powerful fan at the printer during prints I succeed.

So, this is heat creep isn't it?

Galadriel
Aleph Objects | LulzBot
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am

Re: Filament grinding

Post by Galadriel » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:33 am

JRAlvarez wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:28 pm
To recap. I still haven't solved this issue.

* Without the enclosure prints still fail.

* If I point a rather powerful fan at the printer during prints I succeed.

So, this is heat creep isn't it?

Since the addition of extra cooling allows your prints to finish successfully it sounds pretty definitively like this is a heat creep issue to me.

JRAlvarez
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Filament grinding

Post by JRAlvarez » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:48 pm

Galadriel wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:33 am
JRAlvarez wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:28 pm
To recap. I still haven't solved this issue.

* Without the enclosure prints still fail.

* If I point a rather powerful fan at the printer during prints I succeed.

So, this is heat creep isn't it?

Since the addition of extra cooling allows your prints to finish successfully it sounds pretty definitively like this is a heat creep issue to me.
Suggestions? Could the heat sink fan be failing? Or is there a suggested upgrade to a higher quality fan?

Galadriel
Aleph Objects | LulzBot
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am

Re: Filament grinding

Post by Galadriel » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:55 am

Working with PLA it honestly could just be an ambient temperature issue, PLA likes quite a bit of cooling and I'm not sure about where you are but it is still pretty dang warm out here and if the air surrounding the printer is especially warm it just won't be as effective at cooling the nozzle. I know it's already been mentioned by someone else but this could be a matter of gunk in the fan gumming up the rotation but aside from that I haven't encountered them loosing power over time, from my experience it has been a pretty pass or fail sort of situation. I don't personally have any suggestions for a better fan to use if you did decide to modify the printer, but there might be other people who have posted options here on the forums. If it was me I would probably just stick with the desk fan because it is easy and you might not end up needing the upgrade later on in the year once things start to cool down, but that might just be me always liking the easiest solution the best :lol:

b-morgan
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:53 am

Re: Filament grinding

Post by b-morgan » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:56 am

What tool head are you using?

Noctua has a 40x40x10mm (NF-A4x10 5V) fan that has a slightly higher output than the stock fan and a 40x40x20mm fan (NF-A4x20 5V) that is definitely higher output than the stock fan (but will require 10mm longer screws).

The manufacturer of the stock fan has higher output models but a minimum order quantity of hundreds of units!

My personal solution started with a 120mm, 120v AC muffin fan I pointed in the general direction of the tool head and that worked if I remembered to turn it off for the first few layers and turn it on for the rest (and there were failures because operator wasn't always on the ball :) ).

I have since added two 80mm 12V fans mounted on the frame of my TAZ 6 controlled by a Raspberry Pi (hat) synchronized to the speed of the cooling fans set by the gcode (M106, M107). My TAZ 6 is also connected to that Raspberry Pi running OctoPi / OctoPrint. This solved the "unreliable operator" problem :lol: .

BTW, I'm still using the stock fan but I have the Noctua fans on the shelf if I need them.

JoeBowler300
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:20 am

Re: Filament grinding

Post by JoeBowler300 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:23 am

Upgrade your print head to the Aerostruder and be sure to purchase and put on the silicone soc. I’m able to do 12 hour prints with PLA with this print head (and this is with a .2mm nozzle) Filament is really easy to load with the aerostruder print head too. The stock printhead would often fail in about 2 hours with PLA. I can’t see a reason to ever have to go back to the stock print head.

JRAlvarez
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Filament grinding

Post by JRAlvarez » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:16 pm

Galadriel wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:55 am
Working with PLA it honestly could just be an ambient temperature issue, PLA likes quite a bit of cooling and I'm not sure about where you are but it is still pretty dang warm out here and if the air surrounding the printer is especially warm it just won't be as effective at cooling the nozzle. I know it's already been mentioned by someone else but this could be a matter of gunk in the fan gumming up the rotation but aside from that I haven't encountered them loosing power over time, from my experience it has been a pretty pass or fail sort of situation. I don't personally have any suggestions for a better fan to use if you did decide to modify the printer, but there might be other people who have posted options here on the forums. If it was me I would probably just stick with the desk fan because it is easy and you might not end up needing the upgrade later on in the year once things start to cool down, but that might just be me always liking the easiest solution the best :lol:
Yeah...I was just hoping not to have to use the fan.

I got the printer in May of last year. And I printed pretty much non stop for the first year. It just feels like I would have run into this problem last summer as well. The temperature was about the same.

I'll investigate replacing the fan just to see what happens.

JRAlvarez
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Filament grinding

Post by JRAlvarez » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:25 pm

b-morgan wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:56 am
What tool head are you using?
Stock.

Noctua has a 40x40x10mm (NF-A4x10 5V) fan that has a slightly higher output than the stock fan and a 40x40x20mm fan (NF-A4x20 5V) that is definitely higher output than the stock fan (but will require 10mm longer screws).

The manufacturer of the stock fan has higher output models but a minimum order quantity of hundreds of units!

My personal solution started with a 120mm, 120v AC muffin fan I pointed in the general direction of the tool head and that worked if I remembered to turn it off for the first few layers and turn it on for the rest (and there were failures because operator wasn't always on the ball :) ).

I have since added two 80mm 12V fans mounted on the frame of my TAZ 6 controlled by a Raspberry Pi (hat) synchronized to the speed of the cooling fans set by the gcode (M106, M107). My TAZ 6 is also connected to that Raspberry Pi running OctoPi / OctoPrint. This solved the "unreliable operator" problem :lol: .

BTW, I'm still using the stock fan but I have the Noctua fans on the shelf if I need them.
This is very interesting, So you never tried one of the nocta's to replace the heatsink fan?

As for the octoprint, I did just get a Raspberry Pi, but I haven't gotten around to setting it up because of this overall problem :)

JRAlvarez
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Filament grinding

Post by JRAlvarez » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:26 pm

JoeBowler300 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:23 am
Upgrade your print head to the Aerostruder and be sure to purchase and put on the silicone soc. I’m able to do 12 hour prints with PLA with this print head (and this is with a .2mm nozzle) Filament is really easy to load with the aerostruder print head too. The stock printhead would often fail in about 2 hours with PLA. I can’t see a reason to ever have to go back to the stock print head.
I'm not against upgrades...but I was printing fine for more then a year, and I want to fully understand what is going on here.

kcchen_00
Posts: 1601
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:42 am

Re: Filament grinding

Post by kcchen_00 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:56 pm

Have you cleaned the hobbed bolt?

Are you using default Cura profiles from LB? If not revert back to the original profiles and try printing.

I've read other machines have benefited from a little cooking oil on the filament (PLA) to help it pass any buildup in the heatbreak or cold side... search thingiverse for filament oiler. Never tried this so YMMV.

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