Kittaz Build Issues

A forum dedicated to those intrepid few, that have built their own TAZ 3D printers using our KITTAZ.
jamcav
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:08 pm

Kittaz Build Issues

Post by jamcav » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:12 pm

I would like to first start off with the good...it appears nothing was damaged in shipping, and the organization of parts was overall good. I was happy with the electrical setup and overall I'm glad that i did this build.


With that said, i was surprised at how involved the build was, and it took much longer than i had expected. The overall construction took about 15 hours for me and that was probably due to a number of reasons. It is still not complete, but just about.


Step one of part one took me about an hour. If that's not discouraging, i don't know what is. I think the instructions should read, "Step one, acquire the force of God. Step two, apply the force acquired in step one to rod and bearing." The fact that it says this may require force is a drastic understatement. I later had the advice to heat the bearing, but that was after i had jammed them together with everything i could think of.


This isn't the only place that had ridiculously tight fitting parts. I feel like the holes for the metal rods should be a millimeter larger. I spent a good amount of time trying to jam these rods in the holes (I'm not bad at sticking rods in holes too). After i was done with a couple rods i learned that the inset nuts for the set screws had extra plastic around the inside of the hole which needed to be cleaned out better. This would be worth mentioning in the instructions. Additionally, one of the set screw nuts was protruding into the hole, making it impossible to insert the rod.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0
I ended up putting in an m3x12 into the set screw nut and pulled it up with pliers...as a result it broke free of the plastic and became worthless...however i am not worried considering how hard i had to force the rod in, i don't think it is moving.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0


One area that concerns me is the double bearing holder below.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0
If you can see, the top hole barely aligns with the hole it needs to go into...as a result, there is no play at all...it looks like this part was not printed at the right temperature since it warped at the base.
This causes more friction than necessary and ultimately might be the reason my z access skips steps.

Another area where the plastic parts weren't quite right was in the alignment of the inset nuts:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0

So as I'm sure you guys are aware, nothing is more frustrating than when you are at the final steps and you find you are missing pieces. This happened to me twice...when mounting the electrical box, i find that i don't have enough m5x14 bolts...so i thought eh, maybe they changed their design and want too use the m5x10 bolts without the spacers...so that's what i do. Then when i gettin the stage when we attach the y axis, i don't have enough m5x14 thumb screws. So i find my packing list and compare it to my bags only to discover that despite a checkbox on those screws the quantities don't align...see image below.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0


So i took off the thumb screw on the spool holder(put there initially since I didn't have any m5x14 bolts), and put the two i had in diagonally just to move forward. Still need to fix this issue.

Another quality control issue was the labeling of the switches. It was a minor issue, but should be noted so that it can be fixed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByXYn ... authuser=0
As you can see, I have two E2 bags, and they have different contents...it's easy to figure out which is correct but when I was getting my parts for the Y axis build, I did spend some time trying to figure out how to use the power switch as a limit switch...

After everything was tightened up and squared away, i started my testing...low and behold my z axis is just too hard to move...it works near the top of the frame more so than the bottom, but even at the top there are issues. After taking off the couplers moving the axis to the stage, adjusting the lead screws and trying everything i could think of, the motors would still skip. This is super frustrating. I feel like maybe that double bearing could be the issue, or it could be the rods have a slight bend or something due to the tightness of the fit in the plastic, or the alignment of the motors with the lead rod isn't perfect, it is hard to say. I can tell you that with measuring with calipers, the difference between the distance of the lead screw and the smooth rod at the top and bottom is around .5mm. Is that enough to cause a problem? If it is, how should i fix it?

PhoenixWRX
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by PhoenixWRX » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:23 pm

I just built mine and had the some problems you had. I got this printer because the Taz 4 is highly regarded in a lot of reviews I saw but was out of budget (hell i stretched the budget for the KITTAZ) and the "Award winning documentation." Dont know what awards they won but it wasnt that good. Typos all over the place. A couple missing steps or details (which m3 screws to put in the RAMBO board for example.And pictures that while often were good I was left figuring things out a lot and having frustrations.

In terms of qualities of parts they REALLY need to work on their tolerance stack ups and account for the fact that a number of the parts dont fit right. I had to file a lot of parts and holes. The rods were ridiculous. I had to resort to a hammer for crying out loud. I was not happy about that and was worried about damaging the rod but had no other choice. And I had the same problem with the nut protruding into the rod hole. Again, hammer time.

I also had the same problem with not enough M5x14 bolts and missing M5 thumb screws. I dont know maybe I shouldnt say missing because the right number was there according to the bill of materials and the label on the bag but in order to complete the build I had to run to the hardware store and pay $5 for a few bolts to build it which was annoying.

Also the complete lack of screen shots for instructions on software was very annoying and the lack of instructions to actually get a print going (using slicer software and than pronterface) took time to figure out.

I didnt mind the huge numbe of parts to assemble - I would have enjoyed it minus the fact that a lot of them just didnt fit together very well.

jamcav
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:08 pm

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by jamcav » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:37 pm

I am still having too much friction on my Z axis, I wish there was an easy way to measure this to see just how far off my build is from the norm. Any tips on how to reduce this friction?

GuardianKnight83
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by GuardianKnight83 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:31 pm

I had issues with my Z axis making a terrible grinding noise and getting out of alignment. After a whole day of tinkering with loosening various parts, I stumbled upon the solution which was to loosen the M3x12 screws holding the X end sub assemblies to the Z nuts ever so slightly. Apparently I tightened down the screws too hard which makes it so that the Z nuts would get out of alignment for some reason. This should be a definite note to be added to the assembly instructions.

KosmoPi
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:46 am

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by KosmoPi » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:17 am

Thanks for the warnings. I just got my kit a few days ago and was ready to attack part 1 step 1 last night. So that is all I will comment on. For anyone finds this and needs more advice on this step here we go:

"Step one of part one took me about an hour. If that's not discouraging, i don't know what is. I think the instructions should read, "Step one, acquire the force of God. Step two, apply the force acquired in step one to rod and bearing." The fact that it says this may require force is a drastic understatement. I later had the advice to heat the bearing, but that was after i had jammed them together with everything i could think of. "

So there are kind of two parts to this step, and they both require force. The part you need to put the shaft on the bearing, and then the part where you need to get that sub assembly into the printed idler part.

I happen to have experience putting shafts onto bearings and they are meant to be a very tight interference-type-fit. The easiest way to put the shaft on the bearing, is to lay the bearing flat on a work surface push the bearing in with your hands (it wont get far). Dont worry about it not being perfectly straight, but make it as decently straight up and down as possible. Then tap it in with a small hammer, while holding the bearing down on the work surface. This wont be very gentle, but just keep an eye on the shaft as you hammer it in to try and aim your hammering in order to level it out as it goes into the bearing. You will be able to hammer to where it approximately flush with the bottom end of the bearing (when both the shaft end and the bearing are against the work surface ). If you are lucky and your parts are properly sized, at some point you will hammer the shaft perfectly aligned and all the way in, which when I did, the bearing was able to slide along the shaft easily after that point (dont slide the bearing off the shaft once its on). You obviously want to slide the shaft through the bearing so that the bearing is half way --equal on both sides of the bearing. (It doesnt have to be exact). If your shaft isn't that loose once its on, and you still require force in order to get it to half way, then find something cylindrical that you can hammer against that will fit over the shaft but not the bearing. Then you use this object to hammer the bearing down the shaft to correct half way placement. Just dont hammer the bearing directly-you could damage it!

So now you should have a shaft on a bearing. Now you need to shove it in to the slot of the printed part called the idler. The lulzbot picture shows it all the way in. Either intentionally or unintentionally, this is a tight fit as well. So this requires force too. I sorted just pushed the bearing in slightly with my hands, then worked it in with a channel lock pliers, going sort of left side/right side alternating. At first I was pushing on the shaft part of the shaft/sub assembly and the bottom of the printed piece, then as the part got almost into place I was pushing on the bearing itself against the printed piece. Use something soft in between your pliers and the pieces in order to not cause surface damage. Note that its generally okay to mar the surface of the shaft out near the two ends. The bearing is the part that spins on the middle of the shaft, so the ends of the shaft never really do anything other than are held in place. When its fully in place, make sure the bearing is able to be spun without too much resistance.

I did this process in about 10-15 minutes. All that for step 1 part 1!!! I hope this helps somebody, and maybe lulzbot can increase their documentation in this first step. I will try to update this thread with my experience on your other problem areas too.

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Orias
Aleph Objects | LulzBot
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: US

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by Orias » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:15 pm

Thank you all for the feedback! If you encounter parts that you are not comfortable working with or think are out of spec, send an email to Support@LulzBot.com with your order number, shipping address, contact information and a description of what you are encountering/photo and we'll be happy to do what we can to help.

We'll be adding your feedback to our guides to further improve things.

Thanks!

jamcav
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:08 pm

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by jamcav » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:32 pm

Yea, ultimately I did hammer the rod in the bearing, and used pliers as my 'spacer'. It would be great if there was a plastic spacer with a washer on it or something that would go around the bearing that you could hammer against. This would be a good addition to the kit.

I will send an e-mail with my order number etc, to send those missing parts, cause I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for locally.

For those wondering, ultimately I loosened up pretty much every screw on that Z-axis assembly in order to have enough play in the parts that the friction was low enough to move without skipping. I am going to continue calibrating and tighten things as I go, hopefully they will be aligned with one another when I tighten them back down.

I am having some issues that when I home all 3 axes the nozzle will hit the plastic corner of the bed...but I haven't dug deep enough into calibration to determine if I am missing something, so I will keep you posted.

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Orias
Aleph Objects | LulzBot
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Location: US

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by Orias » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:19 am

Turn the bed finger/clip on the front left-hand corner of the bed clockwise, so that the finger sits half on/half off the bed.

pcenginefx
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:55 am

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by pcenginefx » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:05 am

I'm glad there was an official response to this thread! I'm looking to buy my 2nd 3D printer and I'm seriously looking at the KITTAZ, but after reading this build report I'm having 2nd thoughts. I hope changes can be made to the kit by Jan/Feb as this is when I'll be purchasing.

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JonathanB
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Kittaz Build Issues

Post by JonathanB » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:46 pm

Pretty much had all the same issues as everyone else, but even at that, it's a kit, you can't expect everything to go perfectly, that's why you're saving that much money. All the issues I had, I was able to find fixes for. It's a great way to learn the fundamentals of how a 3D printer works also.

One thing though, is that I had severe binding issues with the right z-axis and I know alot of other people had this issue also. I finally figured out that the 3D printed part that bolts onto the leadscrew nut wasn't square with the x end mount plate, so when you tighten all the bolts down, it "pulls" on the z axis causeing binding. I fixed this by completely removing the two bottom screws and loosening and just putting snug the two top screws on that part (3d printed part that bolts onto the lead screw nut). Seems to do the trick, and I can't see how it would affect performance. I'm sure I will probably end up printing a better fitted replacement part later on.

Overall, I was pretty pleased with the kit, I looked at their BOM to see if they were overcharging for parts and it's quite the opposite, if you were to source and order all the parts, it would be more expensive for most parts because they order in large quantities so it comes out to being a good value. If you need any help with setup, just let me know.

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