Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

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mburko
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Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by mburko » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:24 pm

On my 4th PEI bed. Run ABS only on 1 of my LB Mini printer. 110c bed softens the ubiquitous 468MP tape with 200MP adhesive. Parts warp, PEI lifts off (de-laminates from) the glass. Time to replace the PEI and adhesive.

Recommendations for different high temperature Transfer Tape and adhesive, please.

ScottW
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:00 pm

Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by ScottW » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:45 pm

I haven't tried it... But 3M has another tape, 9082, rated to 280C for short term tolerance. The 468 is only rated to 204C for short term tolerance.

I think Lulzbot will eventually be looking at this, but it appears to be out-prioritized by other work at the moment.
https://code.alephobjects.com/T4401

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piercet
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by piercet » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Theres a small roll of it on ebay for $50. I might give it a shot.

mburko
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by mburko » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:41 pm

Original poster back after about 2 weeks. I apologize for over-ranting. My ABS printing is doing better. Still think we need a different adhesive.

Seems I missed the meaning of "72 hour dwell" on the 468MP and 200MP adhesive product datasheets. I would call it "cure time". It means, the adhesive will reach full strength after a 72 hour cure time.

Still believe, nay, am certain, a different adhesive is needed for bed temps above 100c. The pretty picture at

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/ ... 972&rt=rud

Show 9082 tape as recommended for metals. 468MP tape's 200MP adhesive is in the "Plastics Pyramid".

200MP is also shown as Low strength for Low Surface Energy (LSE) plastics. Me thinks PEI is a LSE material.

Same graphic shows 300, 300LSE and 350 adhesives offer High Strength for LSE materials.

No conclusions, just more data.

ScottW
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by ScottW » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:17 pm

Good info. So 9082 can take the heat, but may not adhere well to PEI if not designed for plastics.

I really like the concept that Prusa has, with the spring steel plate powder-coated with PEI. No adhesive, no bubbles. But they've had significant problems getting production quantities of acceptable quality -- so not sure whether that will be a good answer or not.

I can say I'm tired of replacing my PEI. Really only a problem with ABS, due to the 110c bed temp. I try to avoid ABS for that reason, but it really is the right material for a lot of things.

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CoParaTech
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by CoParaTech » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:28 pm

I upgraded all my Mini beds to thicker 4 mil PEI sheets. It's stiffer than the original thinner PEI and does not bubble even if the 3M adhesive releases it's grip in spots. I just wipe the bed after every print and and it remains adhered and flat. If I get any deep scratches I just lightly sand them out and clean the bed and get back to printing. I didn't even have to adjust my normal bed temps. I've had the same PEI sheets running for up to 2 years. Here's a link:

https://www.mcmaster.com/8685k41

BusterCherry
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by BusterCherry » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:39 pm

Thanks for the link. CoParaTech, are you printing mostly ABS?

ScottW
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by ScottW » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:37 am

@coparatech - Thanks for that PEI link, I've wanted to try a thicker sheet and that looks perfect. What adhesive did you use, and was it sourced from mcmaster as well?

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CoParaTech
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by CoParaTech » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:57 am

I don't print ABS, I print mostly HT & nGen, as well as PC & occasionally nylon. The thicker PEI handles it all. I used a sheet of the standard 3M, 468 I think, that I had laying around. Sometime I can see a slight color change where the adhesive is trying to release I think, but the PEI remains flat and doesn't affect the print surface, so no bubbles or lifting anywhere. I didn't see the 3M adhesive on McMasters, but they have it on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BK8PHZK/re ... hCbVBZGTS9

ScottW
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Re: Looking for better PEI to Glass bed adhesive 200MP 468MP fail ABS temperatures

Post by ScottW » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:27 pm

@coparatech - Thanks for the links!

I found a seller on Amazon selling a "set", 8"x8" of the 1mm/0.040" PEI and 8"x8" of the 468MP adhesive, so I think I'll give that a try.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074XJLWL6

I wish the sheet/adhesive came "assembled".... The same seller offers the thinner sheets (0.020") with adhesive already laminated, but apparently not the thicker 1mm sheets. So I get two chances at creating bubbles, LOL.

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