Any thoughts n the E3D Titan extruded?

This was put on hold for a bit due to personal issue my friend had to deal with. Tried reaching him when I saw your post, but he hasn’t replied. He’s got the extruders and hotends… I guess I could look into getting some extruders to finish mockng it up.

Just uploaded a preview of the project in the current state: DualTitan

Things to do:

  • Determine best way to attach the fans to the extruder. Need to come up with a “dovetail” type interface…
  • Holes to mount dual extruder tray and fan to toolhead mount. Probably just some openings to hold a M4 nut on the tray with corresponding openings on the mount.
  • Need to figure out if a 20x20 or 40x40 fan will fit on the back side for heatsink cooling.
  • Wire management

Pretty simple things, but I wanted to mock up what I had before moving further.

Alternative / Ambitious things to try:

  • Make each stepper / extruder detachable for quick change of hotends (which can be dedicated to filament type). Really to keep from intermixing filaments and therefore reducing potential clogging. In the current configuration getting the cover off to replace the hotend would involve removing the blower and duct… worse if I try for the below item.
  • Turn the extruders around to keep hotends close to the X-rods/openbeam. Based on experiences with the DualExtruder V2, this should increase stability of both hotends.

kcchen,

Thank you VERY MUCH for getting back to me on this. I just finished my open rails x axis mod and am now prepping to get this toolhead assembled but I don’t know my way around 3D modeling >.<

Here is a single version of the titan + E3D mount:
SingleTitanExtruderForTaz5.stl.zip (20.7 KB)
Having thought a fair bit about it, but with minimal experience as a modeler, I thought of a few things…

The motors should be as close to the carriage as possible (and as close together as possible) because they are the heaviest things on the toolhead. That should reduce vibration / artifacts the most. [Anyone jump in here with more experience on this issue!]

Secondarily, the toolheads should be as close together as possible but this is pretty much dependent on where the motors sit.

Third, The fans should not be in the front as you have modeled in your own design [in my noob opinion]. Like the single version I posted here, the fans should come from either side so as to keep everything as close to the rail as possible.

Also, It would be optimal if we can see inside the extruders through their clear siding but if they have to be facing each other or something so be it…

Let me know how many six packs of beer I can help sponsor your efforts with!!! I am dreading the idea of learning 3D modeling to make such a technical item. Let me know what you think :slight_smile:

Great suggestions… and doable modifications.

The extruders are seperated by 5mm. It looks farther, but the gear extends farther than the outer wall. The hotend distance is limited by the extruder body. To get the hotends closer together, the extruders could be setup facing each other. It would help with keeping the nozzles level.

One of the keys I was worried about with the side-by-side configuration was clearances on the X axis. Moving the fans to either side could be a possibility… but you’d have to find a left hand and right hand blower based on the intake? I’d like to take advantage of the rear of the X-carriage…

As for the motors. Its definitely a good idea to keep the mass as close to the rails. But working with the existing Dual Extruder V2, the stability of the T1 hotend is compromised due to the it being further away from the rail… basically it loses accuracy unless you mitigate all the jerk. Which means printing a 20mm/s. This could be that the X-Carriage or current tool mount is not strong enough with the current design… that’s another project in the making.


Anyway, this is still very much a work in progress… I can put some finishing touches on all the parts this weekend if you’d like to test print and assembly.

I’ve got the extruders on order, also a 50x15 fan… should have a better idea of fitment and possibly next week.

kcchen,

Glad we agree on the suggestions! I am stoked you have decided to give this project some time as I got a chance to look at a few other things you posted on SketchFab. You clearly know what you’re doing.

One thing you are probably right about is the side clearance of the proposed fans on the left and right sides. Especially with bigger fans, it might be wide enough to reduce the printable area (so as not to hit the taz frame on either side). I don’t know how well a design with the shrouds on the back of the axis would work… especially considering I have modded the rods to a rail (and a lot of other people have too). Let me know if you want any photos or caliper measurements for a second opinion.

I am also using a Dual Extruder V2 and have been non-plussed. Heat creep issues and the seemingly unnecessary weight of the thing has me annoyed. Really looking forward to an option that is lighter and doesn’t protrude as much from the axis.

Also, I noticed the space between the back of the motor and the rear of the carriage mount plate. Any chance you could make that flush? I think the single titan extruder file I posted did a nice job of that.

Let me know when you want me to guinea pig a new model and I will post with comments and photos!! You rock.

-Loop

For those working on TAZ mounts, I designed and posted this on Thingiverse a few months back, its been working great for me. I’m sure it can be improved, but I’ve had zero issues with it so far:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1523837

Love to see what others come up with. Like I said, I’m sure mine could be improved. Someone else did a remix of it, making it smaller to handle a smaller pancake stepper as well.

Mine has the motor as far back as possible, centering the weight, with the Titan front facing for easy access. This does offset the hot end from the standard position. The simple fix was I just loosened the screws on the taz and re-centered the bed with the nozzle, no firmware or other changes necessary.

I’m curious how the 1.75 / 3mm is working out for you. Also, the flexible filaments. Specifically, are they 100% stable in operation? This would certainly be a #1 selling point for upgrading my rig.

Thanks for any additional info you can share.

PeterT

You quoted me quoting kkchen - I can only speak for the 1.75 and 3mm filaments. Both work beautifully in it. I prefer 3mm filament because if you’re printing with a huge nozzle you’re going to be ramming 1.75mm through it really fast which could cause problems with the spool. But they both have no issue at all. In fact even with 3mm, when using a huge nozzle, I was having printing problems because the extruder could not pull the filament through fast enough when pulling against the weight of a full spool, I had to design a new spool holder with both standard and trust bearings. Now my spool turns with only the slightest tug, and it’s solved a ton of print problem.

I still haven’t tried flexible filament, so I cannot speak for that, but I see no reason why it wouldn’t work great. The path from the hobbed bolt to the hot end is so short, and the entire path is ‘enclosed’ with no wiggle room, I don’t forsee any problems.

Has anyone swapped between flexible and standard filaments with a Titan? If so, did you have any trouble? Did you use a cleaning filament between the other filament types?

Updated model: DualTitan.V0.2

Still want to add wire management… but everything fits as planned. Waiting on M4x5 screws to test the extruder fastening.

Mock-up pictures. Sorry for the poor picture quality… bad lighting = grainy pictures.


Yessss! Kcchen killing it!

I will print this out and give you feedback soonish. I still think that having the fans on the sides would be great because it would keep everything closer to the axis and also let you see through the windows on the titans.

Got a link for those fans you used by chance?

Thanks again for working on this, so grateful.

Ok. Made some final tweaks to the Dual Titan extruder. I’m travelling for the next few weeks, so won’t be able to test in the near future. Thought I’d post here for a few days before uploading to Thingiverse.

For the brave, the STLs are attached. Additional hardware:

Here are other vitals to assemble and get the extruder working:

  • Assemble each extruder tray assembly
  • Insert M4 nut into tray before placing the NEMA17. May need to use the M4 screw to “suck” the hex nut into the opening on the tray.
  • Since the extruder cover needs to be sandwiched between the Fan Duct Interface and extruder body, use the longer M3 (I think they are 35mm) screws that came with the Titan.
  • Use the M3x25mm socket cap screws and hex nuts to attach 5015 fan to the Fan Duct. Leave these slightly loose until slid on the FD Interface. Tighten the screws after everything is assembled… this will help lock the fan duct in place.
  • Slide the extruder tray into the ToolMount. Use the M4 screw to secure the tray.
  • In the slicer use X-Offset of 65mm


    Good luck! Report back!
    TAZ-DualTitan-ToolMount.V5.stl (604 KB)
    TAZ-DualTitan_FanDuct Interface.V5.stl (474 KB)
    TAZ-DualTitan_Extruder Tray.V5.stl (1.16 MB)
    TAZ-DualTitan_5015 FanDuct.V5.stl (574 KB)
    TAZ-DualTitan_5015 Cover.V5.stl (615 KB)

This is great. Need to add to the list of upgrades i want to do. Did you get a chance to test it out yeT?

Please forgive my ignorance on this subject, but is the TAZ 5 the same mount as the TAZ 6? If so, I can give this a whirl to test it as well (I have a TAZ 6).

Essentially yes. The notch and bolt mount point is the same, the Taz 6 mount itself is a little lower than the early Taz 5 mounts, but that actually helps so it isn’t an issue. The wire harness connectors may be slightly different, but easy to adapt.

The wiring is a concern for me. I see a guide on Matterhackers about wiring for the TAZ 5 (I think that was the model). I don’t want to fry my new TAZ 6. :wink: I see some deep research ahead.

Basically you have a couple separate wires to think about. The heater core, the thermistor, the extruder motor, and the two fan controls. As long as you don’t plug the thermistor into a voltage lead it should be difficult to fry anything. You can find the wiring installation and pictures and whatnot here: https://ohai.lulzbot.com/

Does anyone know where to get the fan duct stl for this single extruder mount? The E3D Wiki shows one but I can’t find a download link for it.

I bought dual Titan’s and dual E3D v6 hot ends. I also got the smaller (shorter height) stepper motors that were recommended by Tom (http://toms3d.org/2016/04/24/review-e3d-titan-as-a-super-light-extruder/) and by the support person at Filastruder where I bought the extruders and hot ends.


http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-bipolar-step-motor-29v-07a-18ncm255ozin-17hs100704s-p-260.html

I developed a custom extruder mount that takes advantage of the smaller steppers to keep everything as close to the x-axis rail as possible. I will post the stl files once I have tested everything out. I created a pivot point in the mount so that the print heads can be easily leveled with respect to the print bed.

At this point I need to get the software set up for the dual heads. The ‘add a new machine’ option in Cura is geared towards the tool heads provided by Lulzbot. I know I need to modify the limits on the x and y travel to accommodate the change in nozzle placement with respect to the carriage. I think I found the place for that. My main question is whether the path forward involves updating the firmware or can the necessary settings modifications be accomplished via Cura?

Any advice or tips are welcome.

Thanks

Thirstycow,
Which model Taz did you install/build this on?
Just a quick thought, but the Taz 5 & 6 appears to be optimized as far as axis travel goes by having one extruder in front of the other instead of side-by-side to use the whole bed area. Did your side-by-side layout constrict your bed area usage?

It’s a Taz 5. I really poured over the design and this one more or less represents v3. I had to make a few compromises, but it achieved all of my goals. The left nozzle tip has complete coverage of the print bed. The distance between the left and right nozzle tips is 2.481 in. That’s how much I will loose on the right side of the bed for dual printing. I can certainly envision other designs that get the nozzles closer together but they would require a Bowden type setup where the extruder is not on the carriage. The nice thing about the components is that I could break everything apart and reconfigure it that way if print area becomes an issue. It seems like everything is going to work, I just need to modify the settings so I can test it out. So that’s where I’m at now - information gathering. I’m the slow, steady, perfectionist type.