Delamination problem

Hi everyone,
I am a new user and after 4 weeks of try, I come to you since I am not able to fix my problem.
I read a lot on many forums and despite slight improvements, I still have the problem. I am extruding at 230 degrees and my printbed is at 85 degrees. I enclosed my Taz 4 so that is is kept at the same temperature (probably around 30 degrees).
My part is large (260cm x 130cm x 8cm). I think that my picture is worth a thousand words.
If anyone has any advice, it could help me a lot!

I’m also struggling to print large pieces and I’m experimenting with adding external buttresses to the design that will be removed after printing. That said, your deamination looks more serious than that approach could improve.

What material are you using? Who is the supplier? How is it stored? For instance, I’m using nylon and it varies greatly if moist or dry (although I couldn’t tell you which is better for layer adhesion yet).

Have you measured the filament accurately and entered those figures into your slicer? Try over-extruding to see if that helps with adhesion.

Hi Rupert,
Thanks for your reply! I am using ABS from LulzBot 3mm (that I set to 2.9 mm without measurement). I tried to increase extrusion rate (up to 160%) but the problem still occurred. ABS was used directly after opening the bag (that contains silica beads). I am wondering if increasing the printbed temperature could help. I am currently testing at 110°C, I will let you know if this help. Actually I was printing with the printbed at 110°C and as the problem was already present since the beginning I enclosed the printer and set the temperature to 85°C, as LulzBot recommend. I noticed slight improvement but I think that it is mainly due to the enclosement. The speed is very low (the part on the picture took 30 hours).

It sounds like the material is good and the settings are sensible.

Bed height is important for all layers, but if it’s sticking to the bed it’s probably OK. It might be worth checking that the first layer is gently squashed onto the bed and not lying on top.

I can’t see how the bed temperature could alter the adhesion of higher layers apart from generally keeping the chamber warm.

I might be at the limit of my experience regarding ABS - hopefully somebody else can help.

Indeed a hotter printbed will probably only affect the print result by increasing the chamber’s temperature where the printer is enclosed.
On that website: they explain that increasing the temperature could be useful. I will definitely keep you informed about the outcome with a higher temperature.

Are you using Slic3r & Pronterface?
Are you using a Lulzbot provided profile for ABS? If so, which profile are you using?

Is your fan on or off during print?

You might want to post your g-code settings so the more advanced users here can see what’s going on.

Looking at that part makes me think your fan is running.

Printing larger objects with thin walls like that can be troublesome, as ABS has the inherent property of shrinking when cooling. Splitting like that is to be expected. You’ll have much better luck with that model if you were to use PLA or HIPS.

Thank you for your answers. The fan wan not running at all and I am using Slic3r (.stl to .gcode) and Printrun (to start the print). I am not using a LulzBot provided profile for ABS… Perhaps I should try one. I am using the default settings but followed the manual provided by LulzBot and had modified the important settings according to LulzBot.

Here is my config:

generated by Slic3r 1.1.7 on Fri Nov 7 16:11:07 2014

avoid_crossing_perimeters = 0
bed_size = 298,280
bed_temperature = 85
bottom_solid_layers = 3
bridge_acceleration = 0
bridge_fan_speed = 100
bridge_flow_ratio = 1
bridge_speed = 60
brim_width = 5
complete_objects = 0
cooling = 1
default_acceleration = 0
disable_fan_first_layers = 1
dont_support_bridges = 1
duplicate_distance = 6
end_gcode = M104 S0 ; turn off temperature\nG28 X0 ; home X axis\nM84 ; disable motors\n
external_perimeter_speed = 70%
external_perimeters_first = 0
extra_perimeters = 1
extruder_clearance_height = 20
extruder_clearance_radius = 20
extruder_offset = 0x0
extrusion_axis = E
extrusion_multiplier = 1
extrusion_width = 0
fan_always_on = 0
fan_below_layer_time = 60
filament_diameter = 2.9
fill_angle = 45
fill_density = 40%
fill_pattern = honeycomb
first_layer_acceleration = 0
first_layer_bed_temperature = 90
first_layer_extrusion_width = 200%
first_layer_height = 0.35
first_layer_speed = 30%
first_layer_temperature = 235
g0 = 0
gap_fill_speed = 20
gcode_arcs = 0
gcode_comments = 0
gcode_flavor = reprap
infill_acceleration = 0
infill_every_layers = 1
infill_extruder = 1
infill_extrusion_width = 0
infill_first = 0
infill_only_where_needed = 0
infill_speed = 60
interface_shells = 0
layer_gcode =
layer_height = 0.22
max_fan_speed = 100
min_fan_speed = 35
min_print_speed = 10
min_skirt_length = 0
notes =
nozzle_diameter = 0.35
only_retract_when_crossing_perimeters = 1
ooze_prevention = 0
output_filename_format = [input_filename_base].gcode
overhangs = 1
perimeter_acceleration = 0
perimeter_extruder = 1
perimeter_extrusion_width = 0
perimeter_speed = 30
perimeters = 3
post_process =
print_center = 149,140
raft_layers = 0
resolution = 0
retract_before_travel = 2
retract_layer_change = 1
retract_length = 1
retract_length_toolchange = 10
retract_lift = 0
retract_restart_extra = 0
retract_restart_extra_toolchange = 0
retract_speed = 30
seam_position = aligned
skirt_distance = 2
skirt_height = 1
skirts = 1
slowdown_below_layer_time = 30
small_perimeter_speed = 30
solid_fill_pattern = rectilinear
solid_infill_below_area = 70
solid_infill_every_layers = 0
solid_infill_extrusion_width = 0
solid_infill_speed = 60
spiral_vase = 0
standby_temperature_delta = -5
start_gcode = G28 ; home all axes\nG1 Z5 F5000 ; lift nozzle\n
support_material = 1
support_material_angle = 0
support_material_enforce_layers = 0
support_material_extruder = 1
support_material_extrusion_width = 0
support_material_interface_extruder = 1
support_material_interface_layers = 3
support_material_interface_spacing = 0
support_material_interface_speed = 100%
support_material_pattern = honeycomb
support_material_spacing = 2.5
support_material_speed = 60
support_material_threshold = 0
temperature = 230
thin_walls = 1
threads = 2
toolchange_gcode =
top_infill_extrusion_width = 0
top_solid_infill_speed = 50
top_solid_layers = 3
travel_speed = 130
use_firmware_retraction = 0
use_relative_e_distances = 0
vibration_limit = 0
wipe = 0
z_offset = 0

I had a 6.25 inch diameter funnel with pretty thin walls I had to print and I had some similar delamination issues, although not quite as bad as what I see in your picture.

I added some “ribs” to the part which broke up the loooooooong sections of steady printing. My print improved dramatically with the ribs.

Can you increase the radius on the corners and/or add some “ribs” to the part?
Either internal or external depending on what you intend to use the part for?

Not sure if changing the infill from honeycomb to some other choice would help or hurt, but it may be worth a try.
On such a large print that takes forever to print and uses a lot of material it’s hard to “just try” other options.

If you find a solution please post what worked best for you.

Hello all,

Sorry for the delay of my reply; I had several issues with my extruder and I had to order a new one before printing again. I finally came to a much better result by increasing the temperature. I set the bed temperature to 108°C (112°C for the first layer) end 230°C (235°C for the first layer) for the extruder. My printer is enclosed with a blanket above on the printer shipping box so that temperature inside the chamber is 40°C (high bed temperature only serves to heat the chamber).
My print has the following dimensions: 19 cm x 9.5 cm x 6 cm (height).

I added a big raft (already removed on the picture) in order to prevent the print to bend.

With my (little) experience, if you wanted to print big parts (>20 cm), you would need to:

  • enclose your printer to avoir temperature changes
  • set high temperature bed to heat the chamber
  • add a raft to prevent bending

Good luck for those who print big parts !

I havn’t printed super large parts yet but I plan on it but for now, to deal with warping and delam of ABS my technique is as follows…

Ontop of the PET that Taz provides, I put another layer of PET tape, same stuff but in roll form and I just put it where I’m going to need it. I then take 80grit sand paper and score that second layer of tape really well. I make sure my first layer is squished in as opposed to less squished. Sometimes, if the part doesn’t have a lot of surface contact, I will add a generous amount of ABS juice also. With ABS juice lthough, if your part has a lot of surface area, I wouldn’t add it because it’s not necessary and makes it really hard to remove. I use it as a last resort. The second layer of scored and scratched tape seems to really do the trick and grab that first foundation layer.

I’ve had perfect prints doing things this way(up to 13cm long) but in most cases, ABS juice or not, the parts can be hard to remove sometimes, but personally, I’d rather it that way then not be sure if they are going to pop off halfway during a long print. To remove them, I use a putty knife that’s been sharpend down but with the corners rounded off, I slide it under the second layer of tape and give it a few taps with a hammer and usually it will slowly pry up the second layer of tape.

Also, with ABS, I think common sense would say that if you are going to be putting down really fine layers, you will want to have a heat source on the part or have a high ambient temperature as there’s less thermal dissipation being put out with thinner layer heights. Atleast that’s what I’m noticing.