New Hotend Questions

Questions:

  1. Will the new high temp hex hotend be available standalone like the budaschnozzle (so I don’t have to by the whole extruder and make the printed parts myself to save money)?
  2. Can the new hex extruder be swapped back and forth with the old extruder, dual extruder, or flexy dually (without a firmware change)?
  3. Will it be possible to build a dual extruder with 2 of the new hex hotends (to replace the existing dual extruder or flexy dually), i.e. is there a wiring conflict with the 2 fans required by a dual extruder and the 2 fans in the new extruder?
  4. Is there any advantage to upgrading to the new high temp hex hotend if I’m not going to use filaments requiring the higher temps (like nylon or polycarbonate) i.e. will I get better print quality with ABS, PLA, etc.?

Thanks,

John

looks like you’ve been left in the cold for a while…

  1. I don’t have the answer to that. Maybe look at ordering and e3d-v6.
    2)Your question has already been asked and answered–recently. Avoid these kinds of mistakes and you will get more help in the future (google your question first). Here’s a dofor https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/single-and-dual-extruder-hotends-can-i-freely-swap-them/1193/1
  2. Yeah it’s possible. Again a google walkabout will tell you if its been done already, if not start trail blazing.
    4)Check this thread https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/show-off-your-printer-and-printing-station/48/1 for me its been a huge improvement on ABS overhangs.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Before posting I had read all the threads you indicated, I also read this forum almost every day, and pretty up to date on most of the current issues that concern me, the new hot end being one of them. I feel that my questions haven’t been well addressed yet. I had hoped that Lulzbot would respond, but no luck.

I have built a flexy dually so I could print ABS and/or Ninja flex but I dislike it because it is bulky, heavy, and hard to align. I have switched back to the single original extruder for ABS and a single flexystruder for Ninjaflex, but just mount whichever one I need to print, setting the other one aside but still connected so the dual extruder firmware doesn’t complain. I use velcro wire harness straps for the extruder wiring to make this fairly easy. I rarely need to print both together.

I read the OHAI upgrade instructions for the new all metal, hex hotend and learned that harness modifications are required for the dual fans required by the new hotend. This raised a red flag since using dual extruders already requires two fans. One of my questions is an attempt to get Lulzbot to address this issue since it looks to me like there is a potential wiring/firmware conflict here?

Also it would be really nice if I could just buy the new hotend separately and print the other parts as needed to save some money; but currently Lulzbot only offers the complete extruder and not the standalone hotend. Open source be dammed, Lulzbot is clearly in the business to make some money off upgrades. I’m sure Lulzbot will eventually offer the new hotend itself but if you want one now you’ll have to plunk down the bucks. Maybe the advantages are worth it but can Lulzbot clearly enumerate them please?

While I’m on my soapbox, I’m mystified why the Open source 3D printing community continues to stick with the Arduino variants? High speed ARM processors (even multi-cores) with 10X+ horsepower, and tons of on-chip hardware resources are ubiquitous, ATMEL even has one of the best and broadest offerings out there. IMHO the ARM core should be the clear choice for the future of open source 3D embedded systems, for extensability and expandabilty, it’s a no contest winner over Arduino. Arduino is a dead horse why do we keep riding it?

John

We don’t necessarily get to every thread in the forum. If you want a certain response email support@lulzbot.com.

Thanks,

-Jeff

We don’t necessarily get to every thread in the forum. If you want a certain response email > support@lulzbot.com> .

Congrats on your 500th post jebba! :smiley:

Open source be dammed, Lulzbot is clearly in the business to make some money off upgrades.

Yeah dude, last quote I made was $125 and hour for doing freelance engineering work. I don’t see non-profit in the Lulzbot name and they gotta pay their people in R&D somehow. Think of it like a donation to a good cause.

Also it would be really nice if I could just buy the new hotend separately and print the other parts as needed to save some money; but currently Lulzbot only offers the complete extruder and not the standalone hotend.

Damn dog, you gotta get off your box and google around a bit. Where do you think Lulzbot got the hex head from in the first place?
Right here, 50 big ones and your problems are solved. It even comes with the mount, heater, & thermistor.
http://www.reprapdiscount.com/hotends/67-hexagon-hotend-set.html

While I’m on my soapbox, I’m mystified why the Open source 3D printing community continues to stick with the Arduino variants? High speed ARM processors (even multi-cores) with 10X+ horsepower, and tons of on-chip hardware resources are ubiquitous, ATMEL even has one of the best and broadest offerings out there. IMHO the ARM core should be the clear choice for the future of open source 3D embedded systems, for extensability and expandabilty, it’s a no contest winner over Arduino.

It’s an open source community dude, swap out the rambo for a smoothie and give the community a nice little write up on the upgrade and increased performance. You’ll be closer to the machine you really want and you will probably get a bit of knowledge credit. Who knows maybe a 3D printer company will pay you to help them turn it into a marketable product upgrade which they will then sell to help afford your services.

Again a quick google search and you’ll find this
http://smoothieware.org

Arduino is a dead horse why do we keep riding it?

If Arduino is a dead horse why do we keep riding it? Why do so many open source communities still use the Arduino platform? Uhh… the Arduino community is MASSIVE with tons of professional software engineers in the mix. https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki Why do you need more than an 8-bit processor to control a 4 or 5 axes machine anyways?

Brew4You Well said.

Brew4You,
Thanks for the links! I don’t have time to surf the web all day, that’s why I read forums like this one, it’s a lot faster to ask questions, and draw from the vast reservoir of knowledge (like yours) that’s here. I even try to contribute myself, when I can, but I’m a newbie at 3D printing.

See Tom’s review on smoothie.org for why the 3D community needs to abandon Arduino. BTW I am a professional software/hardware engineer (have been for 40+ years) and I haven’t used or designed in an 8 bit micro for over 20 years, there are just so many better alternatives for about the same money. Even for simple systems there’s just no reason to stick with ancient technology when there’s so many better ways to do things. Otherwise we’d all still be using Turing machines, since they can compute anything that can be computed.

I’m a self proclaimed nerd, there’s always a better way to do something, and I like finding them and pushing the state of the art … because I can. I like to think that Lulzbot is founded on a similar philosophy, and in it’s own way the whole open source community shares it too. The answer to your last question “Why do you need more than an 8-bit processor to control a 4 or 5 axes machine anyways?” is the key to enlightenment, I hope you find it.

Jeff,
Sure I could send you guys a personal email, but how does that benefit the community? IMHO Lulzbot needs to get to EVERY thread. Sure there’s a lot of duplication, stupid questions (like mine), and questions that have been answered before a 100 times (like some of mine), but isn’t that what open source is all about and isn’t that one of Lulzbot’s core beliefs?

Thanks to everyone who contributes here, I appreciate it.
John

John

Compared to all the other forums relating to 3d printing, the Lulzbot peoples do a great job of getting to all of the important threads and posts that need to be answered. As a former long term professional forum Administrator of Doom for a fairly well known gaming forum, Ive noticed that too many official responses can actually tend to hinder the growth of a forum. People see the red names in a thread and are reluctant to interact with them sometimes for various reasons, not wishing to bother the staff, etc. Sometimes letting the community respond ends up generating a more organic and growing community, epsecially when people see there is a need for their responses and contributions as well. I think the Lulzbot people have found a really good balance overall in what they do or do not interact with. But that’s just my oppinion.

This lulzbot forum rocks, period, admin or no admin…so let’s not go there. I wouldn’t be where I’m at today, ie. burn’n plastic like it’s going outta style, if it wasn’t for this forum, the community and lulzbot CS… I’m so glad I went with this printer as my first printer, it was the right choice, and other people are hearing about it also! I make sure of it! :wink:

What is ARMS anyway? sounds pretty cool. I’m assuming processors used for CNC? I’m wondering why CNC machining software hasn’t been incorporated into 3DP, CNC Machines have been around for a loooooong time.

What is ARMS anyway

Them things hanging off your shoulders dog! duh…
Sorry, I can’t help myself when it comes to a good dad joke. It’s actually an acronym so you have it in the plural ARMs
Advanced RISC Machine
It’s just basically the type of base architecture for the processor. The Raspberry Pi is based off a ARMv6 32-bit processor. The Atmega 2650 (Arduino mega that makes up the rambo board) is an 8-bit RISC (reduced instruction set computer) processor. It really has to do with how instructions are carried out within a given clock cycle and how memory is allocated. Pic micro-controllers are based on CISC (complex instruction set computer) architecture–another example. Give it a google, it’s pretty interesting stuff. I know this is a vast oversimplification–please don’t yell at me.

This lulzbot forum rocks, period, admin or no admin…so let’s not go there.

YES! but I’m going to anyways. Else I’ll just stare at my printer. Does anyone else get hypnotized when they are printing?

@percet
Totally agree, couldn’t be stated better. I see you’re creeping up on that century mark. Think you can hit it before Orias?

I know this is a TLDR type post–borderline novel–but read on if you like. I’ve broken up my responses to be as succinct and explicit as possible to each one.

See Tom’s review on smoothie.org for why the 3D community needs to abandon Arduino

Gotta link for that dog? 'Could hit me back for at lest one of the links I’ve thrown at you.
I don’t want it to get mistaken that I was knocking smoothie. I think it’s awesome and if I didn’t have so many “irons in the fire”–as they say–and some extra money I would be building a scratch TAZ with a smoothie board just to get some more experience with running more complex coding on higher level processors. The work on the smoothie project is creative, pioneering, and extremely impressive. But to say that Arduino should be abandoned–personally–I think isn’t safe to say and I don’t think anyone at smoothie would explicitly say it. But smoothie developers have spent a lot of effort on the smoothie project and want it to be adopted. So its reasonable for them to say their product is superior–they have to back it fully, who’s gonna buy something from a developer that says “this is pretty sweet but not really necessary”.

The answer to your last question “Why do you need more than an 8-bit processor to control a 4 or 5 axes machine anyways?” is the key to enlightenment, I hope you find it.

I probably won’t I can barely get through the day without losing my car keys. However, I can’t say that it is totally necessary to run this 3D printer on more than an 8-bit RISC chip. I currently print on my TAZ with a .35mm nozzle (waiting for a .75mm) at 175mm/s–100mm/s on the perimeters and bottom–with the acceleration set to 2000mm/s^2. “Lies, damned lies and statistics” am I right? I don’t have any problems with the processor not keeping up. I’m not sure the TAZ can physically go much faster nor at what speed and complexity does the AtMega2650 start to reach its limit. If the TAZ reaches a speed limit due to physical constraints then getting faster electronics won’t make it go faster–just break faster after you crank all the settings up. Besides my favorite part about using small processors is that you become forced to really know the chip and squeeze everything you can out of your software–no memory or clock wiggle room and lots of machine code.

Sure I could send you guys a personal email, but how does that benefit the community? IMHO Lulzbot needs to get to EVERY thread.

Percet drives a tack in this.
I’m going to use my Arduino community example again as a metric to get an idea as to how big this forum is and yet how impossible the task you are asking is. As of writing this the Arduino forum has 2,046,984 posts in 259,387 topics by 256,144 users even if they had 250 moderators–which they definitely do not–each one would still have to comb through 1,000+ topics. Given that there are 8659 posts in 1337 topics by 1381 users in this forum it is relatively small–which is fine–but even with 5 admin–Lulzbot has 2 it seems–it would still be almost impossible to be able to keep up with every single thing that is going on–“Lies, damned lies and statistics” fffuuuu… twice in one post. Here’s a challenge, make a meaningful post on 250 of the most current topics within a 7 day time span and then respond to any reply that you get from your initial posts within another 24 hours–anyone would stop re-answering questions–I know I can’t do this, no way no how. I think a forum or anything that grows out from a single entity is like raising a child, you give it everything you have and do everything for it but eventually that bird is gonna/has to fly off on its own.

Sure there’s a lot of duplication, stupid questions (like mine), and questions that have been answered before a 100 times (like some of mine),

I agree with this completely but it doesn’t/shouldn’t have to be this way. This is why it took me a week to even touch your OP. No one is going to waste their valuable time to re-answer questions except me–sometimes I just can’t keep my mouth shut.

I don’t have time to surf the web all day, that’s why I read forums like this one it’s a lot faster to ask questions

Bro, you waited 6 days for me to come along and spend 10 minutes to search google for you. I don’t want to be mean about it but dude…that’s some fu€ked up $hit right there.

I also read this forum almost every day, and pretty up to date on most of the current issues that concern me, the new hot end being one of them

Then how did this question and response happen?

Also it would be really nice if I could just buy the new hotend separately and print the other parts as needed to save some money; but currently Lulzbot only offers the complete extruder and not the standalone hotend.

Damn dog, you gotta get off your box and google around a bit. Where do you think Lulzbot got the hex head from in the first place?
Right here, 50 big ones and your problems are solved. It even comes with the mount, heater, & thermistor.
http://www.reprapdiscount.com/hotends/67-hexagon-hotend-set.html >



but isn’t that what open source is all about

He’s my take on what I think open source is all about. There is no such thing as a “dofor”–I’ll do this for you–in the open source world (maybe every once-in-a-while). Most things you at least have to make an honest attempt at doing/fixing it yourself first. Without that there is nothing for anyone to build off of. Giving out valuable and useful knowledge to help solve a problem–yours or someone else’s–to make something better/easier is the hidden currency of the open source realm. This could be as basic as letting someone who is having a particular problem know you’re in the same boat even if you are not exactly sure how to fix it.

Here are some of my favorite examples of great threads on this forum. I hope this illustrates my point better. Let me know if there is a thread that should be in here.
https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/adjustable-heat-bed-glass-mount/38/1 I’m in this one and the problem may not even have to do with the printer
https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/hot-end-dead-fix-in-progress-great-cs/1252/1 Super pertinent to your #1. Wait! WTF! admin active on the weekend!?
https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/pei-bed-surface/690/1 6 months strong and given the TAZ5 just dropped I bet it will get some more traffic.
https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/update-video-of-taz-auto-bed-leveling-mod-based-on-taz-mini/1063/6 Think this will be on the TAZ6? Coolest grassroots upgrade I’ve come across so far.
And a not so great thread for comparison.
https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/support-guidance-needed/537/1 Here is a post of a few people putting in a good amount of effort to help someone in a unique situation only to have the OP bail. I wonder if she ever got it to work out? If the OP posts another question will anyone help her out again? It amazing how the people that can be the most helpful on a forum will never respond to people that do this.
Do I have to keep going? I feel like this gets my viewpoint across.

and isn’t that one of Lulzbot’s core beliefs?

I’m pretty sure Lulzbot does a good job summing up their beliefs in the statement below but I’m not really into the habit of speaking on others behalf. And I would like to mention that the hexagon hotend has been a work in progress for almost year now. It came to be through collaborations between Lulzbot and the community and if the community didn’t push for that specific high temp hotend then the current Lulzbot lineup could have just as easily been donned with an e3d-v6 or a j-head MK-IV. Have a search on the forum, the hexagon nozzle is a good example of what I think open source and community directed modification is all about.

We are committed to putting the power back in your hands. That’s why our products come complete with printer designs, specifications, and documentation so your machine can be modified and upgraded as > we advance technology together> .


The point I’ve been trying to make–since my first post–is you should do a little homework before you go asking questions. It’s a general common courtesy to those that you are asking to help you out. Every one of your original questions was easily answerable with a quick search–which you could have found with a little effort on your part or they were already answered somewhere else–which you could have found with a little effort on your part. You also start talking about how things should change or already be different without evening showing an attempt to do anything to create this change–which you could do with a little effort on your part. See where I’m going here? My favorite part about the open source model is if I don’t like some aspect I change it and I let others know about it just in case they might want to change it too. If you go down the road your on you may not get much future help and it could possibly only cultivate resentment from the community. Thus, destroying one of the most powerful aspects of the Lulzbot product for you and everyone else. This in earnest I do not want to happen because I now know a dude with over 40 years of experience with RISC processors that could probably write some slick firmware updates to fix this little issue that’s been out there for a little while now.

I have switched back to the single original extruder for ABS and a single flexystruder for Ninjaflex, but just mount whichever one I need to print, setting the other one aside but still connected > so the dual extruder firmware doesn’t complain> .

Brew4You:

The link for Tom’s review is the same one you gave me. Since you gave me the link I assumed you took your own advice and looked at the review, sorry bad assumption. Where I work they have several Stratasys 3D printers, they probably cost 10X-20X what a TAZ costs, they make awesome prints. But the prints aren’t 10X-20X better than what I can do on my TAZ, they’re better, but not that much better. With some work and the open source community TAZ could make prints just as good as Stratasys, I think it will require ARM to get there, certainly Arduino will never make it happen. If you can’t see that you need to take off your blinders.

Yea, Percet is right on, but I didn’t say Lulzbot should respond to every post, just that they should look at them. Consider the alternative Jeff suggests: If everyone sent personal emails to Lulzbot with our questions they would be inundated, I doubt they could handle all of them either. Lulzbot does themselves a favor when they answer relevant questions, because they’re not just answering the Op but also everyone who reads their posts, it should save them a lot of bother. It also depends on their business model. Does Lulzbot want the open source community to spread the word about how great their products are? Do they want to prove they have great customer support? Do they want to help make the world a better place through 3D printing? If so then they need a dynamite forum (and this one’s pretty darn good). And I didn’t waste 6 days, some of my questions were answered elsewhere (as you pointed out) and I know the admins are super busy (as you pointed out), and I’ve got tons of irons in the fire (like you), and I’m a patient man.

My question about extruder wiring and firmware issues with the new extruder still haven’t been addressed to my satisfaction. I think there are some resource conflicts here? I want to keep my TAZ4 as close to a TAZ5 (…TAZ6, TAZ7…) as possible while still maintaining existing capability, dual extruders, flexystruder, etc… will this work with the new hot end?

Sure, I could hack it myself as you suggest, and as others here have done, but I want to remain as close to Lulzbot standard as possible, so if I have problems I can get Lulzbot support if I need it down the road. I can buy the V2 single extruder for $175 but if Lulzbot offers the hex hotend for $95 (current price of the Buda) I have or can print everything else I need. That’s a savings of $80, no small change for a hobby (maybe a couple of spools of filament) and I think Lulzbot should make this possible sooner rather than later. Sure I realize they want to boost sales with TAZ5 and the Mini but they shouldn’t forget that their current success is based (at least in part) upon the previous sales to all of us current TAZ owners. I think they should make upgrades as painless and inexpensive as possible for existing owners, sooner rather than later.

Open source… different things to different people. Here’s a thread you missed: https://forum.lulzbot.com/t/a-strategy-for-obtaining-great-prints/1326/1 I think this thread shows that there are a million things that can go wrong in 3D printing and all of them will at some point. There’s a huge learning curve involved. For example I’ve spent many hours staring at the Marlin firmware (and thanks to you several hours looking at Smoothieware), but even with 40+ years of embedded systems experience you don’t begin to understand systems that complex with thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of open source man hours overnight. You can’t even begin to be a contributor without spending a lot of time getting over the learning curve, and anyone would be foolish to think they could even begin to make something better from scratch without first understanding the status quo. Over 40 years of embedded systems experience has at least taught me that.

I’m sorry I don’t live up to you’re expectations of a forum member. I started this journey knowing absolutely nothing about mechanical 3D design or 3D printing. So I bought a TAZ, bought some mechanical 3D design software, and dug in. I haven’t been sitting on my tush for 3 months, it’s taken a tremendous effort (contrary to what you think). But thanks to this forum and the open source community and great support from Lulzbot, I have successfully designed and printed many of my own 3D parts and mechanisms. That’s a huge win not only for me but for open source. Could I teach someone else to do it, can I be a principal contributor to this forum and wow everyone with my vast knowledge and awesomeness (like you)? Probably not, but I will try to contribute where I can, I’ll continue to ask dumb questions whether you like it or not. It’s been a heck of a ride so far and I love every minute of it, can you say the same?